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It's weird to me that people don't openly talk about how Elon musk is a fraud when he's done stuff like the child submarines, the plan for fixing traffic by turning the ground under cities into swiss cheese, and the cars that have the hardware for autonomous driving "already installed." They're not even good lies.

I'm guessing it's because he's one of the richest people in the world (depending on how successfully he's juiced his stock via Twitter) and the legally actionable word "fraud" isn't good to throw around when people have money and time

As others have pointed out, more Elon scams:
The Covid ventilation machines that don't work and actually spray particles around, the expensive and inefficient pneumatic tube system, the rockets that continually explode on the launchpads, the plan to clutter up space with an astonishing amount of junk satellites. It just goes on and on.

In case the space junk thing was news to you, it is happening as we speak. SpaceX has a satellite project called Starlink, and they are launching scores of small satellites every couple of weeks. google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/p

Elon wants to out tens of thousands of satellites in our sky. There's only 9,000 stars, by comparison, that are visible to the unaided human eye. Imagine looking up and seeing nothing but what Apartheid emeralds and taxpayer subsidies can buy.

And he's not even the only one doing this. Because we live in capitalism, we have to have multiple competing micro-satellite firms. Each one wanting to launch thousands of satellites.

I'm not saying these wouldn't be good to have, to provide uninterruptible internet to rural areas, but this is the shittiest way to do it, with all the attendant inefficiencies and lack of care about unintended consequences we usually see from the private sector

@InternetEh I thought he was cofounder and it's what took him from "could retire" to "stupid rich".

@BalooUriza wonder if he's actually cofounder, or just bought up rights to call himself that after it got successful like he did tesla

@DangerDyke Actually founded X.com before PayPal was founded, and bought PayPal, a less successful competitor, for the branding. Kinda like how Showbiz Pizza bought Chuck E. Cheese for the branding.

@InternetEh total mass surveillance all over the surface of the planet

it's okay to say these wouldn't be a good thing to have

@InternetEh Do people even need uninterruptible internet though? It would probably be better for the environment to switch to protocols that can tolerate delays and to have UIs that work with that. Like Secure Scuttlebutt or named data networks. But of course those don't feed any billionaire's pocket and ego.

@grainloom @InternetEh as someone who suffers through bad rural internet in a place where 100 Mbit is urban enterprise-grade, I'd much rather this tbh

@grainloom @InternetEh I think video conferencing doesn't work that way yet. Yes, you can always argue "we don't actually need that" and of course we don't, but especially in this time you can probably see how not having it leads to a lower quality of life.

@solarkraft @InternetEh Yup, and indeed we don't need that. People will have a better quality of life if instead of messing up the environment so that everyone can stream in 8k we just used better protocols and restructured our workflows.

@solarkraft @InternetEh
But also NDN can be used synchronously and gives you multi-path transmission for free. So, could even improve streaming, if that's something that you absolutely need.

@InternetEh I really wonder (it may sound like asked in bad faith, but it is not):
What's a better way to implement long shot ideas than making it a race with high risk and high reward? Could a government ever realistically do this by itself?

Like you seem to I also dislike the duplication of efforts in a market, but at the same time appreciate the effects of competition (/horror of a monopoly) just as much.

@InternetEh you wont be able to see any of the stars soon anyway due to pollution

@InternetEh that's the best description of star link i have read

@InternetEh I have very mixed feelings about Starlink and many of Musk's endeavors. I also recognize that many ISPs have an extremely bad relationship with rural communities and that rural communities are ill served by the status-quo. Starlink might light a fire under companies that have had captive consumers up until now. The digital divide in this country is very real. I also think there are a lot of liberal people who might consider moving to more rural areas if there was better internet.

@InternetEh this is not a dystopian cyberpunk reality I want to live

@InternetEh my first thought is, "Do you want Kessler Syndrome? Because this is how you get Kessler Syndrome."

@maidofclay yeah i mean I assume at some point we're gonna want or need to be up there for some reason or another

@InternetEh The satellites for Starlink were designed with 'assisted' deorbting in mind, instead of being left up in orbit to cause problems at some point in the future. They deorbited 47 of them last October. Everything went to plan.

As for it's efficiency: Previous satellite internet deployments put the satellites in a very high orbit, introducing multi-second lag, and extremely slow speeds. They're extremely expensive, $5+/mb of traffic is considered cheap.

@InternetEh The downside of having Starlink sat's in lower orbits is that more of them are required to provide coverage.

Kessler's Syndrome is a valid AF concern with that.

@InternetEh Electric cars which have the build quality of a '96 Chevrolet Cobolt. He bought Tesla, so I'm not sure that really counts.

He mostly exists to get fat off of government contracts.

@jollyrogue @InternetEh I'd argue that the Cobalt has a better build quality. You don't find bodged shit from Home Depot in a factory-new Cobalt and they can actually get the panel gaps straight.

@BalooUriza @InternetEh That’s pretty bad when ‘90s GM has higher initial quality.

@BalooUriza @InternetEh GM stuff disintegrated pretty quickly. Their drive trains were solid, but the rest of the car did not last.

I liked the Cruze, and it’s Buick rebadge. All the the GM Korea/Diahatsu stuff was really decent.

Their full sized trucks were really good. Much better then Ford.

GM quality gets hosed by the C-suite quite often. It really depends if the person in charge has a clue.

@InternetEh The rockets actually work really well.

Which is kinda worse because it means he can fuck up space.

@InternetEh on one hand, Elon Musk, on the other hand, pneumatic tubes as the future of transport

@InternetEh Re: rockets blowing up on the launchpads: They're going after re-usable launch vehicles the hard way. Blow stuff up until they figure out how to do it right, every time. The recent Starlink mission was the 9th re-use of a booster.

It's going to get to a point where people will look back and ask why NASA and other space agencies were happy to let tons of rocketry junk just fall into the oceans all the time.

@InternetEh That said, Musk is a prime example of Capitalism. Tesla cars are shit quality. He's happy to cut corners, pushes factory workers too far, etc. I really hate that about him.

He has funded and directed technology shifts that were not thought to be possible, or too expensive, though.

@InternetEh It may have something to do with people delegitimizing their otherwise completely valid criticism with unfounded hyperbole.
It's like you're claiming he doesn't run a successful space business (the only one with technology acceptable for our time) or just carelessly blasts shit into orbit (the satellites have deorbiting mechanisms built in, are designed to naturally decay and he has an interest in avoiding space junk - of course how well that'll work remains to be seen).

@InternetEh The reason people *like* to talk about his empty promises (you can do that without using the word fraud and people do, you might want to check out thunderf00t) may have something to do with fanboys praising him like he's the savior of humanity and left-leaning people primarily being concerned that a single person even has the power to decide what to do with such insane amounts of wealth (while objecting to the actual use, of course).

@InternetEh (epic centrist opinion incoming)
Of course he's not the guy who will save us all single-handedly. He's not out there to give people free stuff; he seems to be mainly motivated by fun and money (a requisite for more fun). The fun he chooses to invest his money into just happen to pretty cool and useful in multiple aspects of humanity, especially because they're things that would never be decided on by a committee because the risks tend to be so high (high risk, high reward).

@InternetEh He enjoyed a good education and excellent support by wealthy parents. He came to the USA on a path available to few.
He was certainly privileged from the start and always had social support (so his stories about being broke are certainly exaggerated).
Then again he has also managed to do things no human had managed before (multiple companies at 1B valuation IIRC) and made his first big money in software, where you really can make a lot of money starting at 0.

@InternetEh The mostly pointless actionism (ventilators, cave rescue ... calling someone a pedophile?!) is indeed bewildering.

Then again in April of last year there really was a ventilator craze because we didn't know where COVID-19 would take us. Open source designs appeared, car makers were ordered to make ventilators (not entirely sure, may just have been considerations).

I can see why, as someone with the resources, one could want to contribute to the effort (besides PR).

@InternetEh As far as the exploding rockets, they're trying to design a new spacecraft. Rigorous testing is par for the course, and it's not like they don't learn anything. I agree with a lot f your other points, particularly about satellites and their effect on a shared resource (the sky), but if you're trying to design new rockets there are going to be explosions.

covid 

@InternetEh the time he gave all those cpap machines to hospitals to help with covid, when they actually don't help at all, weren't requested and would potentially pump the virus into the air (after he predicted that america would reach 0 new cases but april 2020)

covid 

@InternetEh it would be unreasonable for any one person to remember all of them. there's just too many

elon musk bad 

@InternetEh the richest guy in the world and he got there despite failing constantly

but! he has money, promises nerds space travel and in iron man 2 tony stark, the very ideal of the tech billionaire messiah, praises musk in person and says he's cool.

nerds lacking in empathy want to be him or buy into the vision of the future he's selling. they're willing marks. the fact that he has so much money is easy proof to these people that he's amazing, no that the system is broken

@InternetEh People do talk about him being a slick huckster, but those people tend to be left side of the specturm. It also happens to be in conjunction with anti-billionaire posts, so not exactly mainstream.

@InternetEh i read a conspiracy theory that the reason spacex is so awash in defense money is that his tickets aren't even really for space travel, they're for doing tactical resupplies anywhere in an hour

@pinkosock I mean yeah I'm pretty confident most of this stuff will be used to further dod projects

@InternetEh he also posts stuff about cryptocurrency that make the accounts that pretend to be him and reply to his tweets with stuff about bitcoin giveaways seem like legit offers and not total scams (I was just reading an article about a guy who fell for one of those and got scammed out of $400k)

@InternetEh What would you say he’s frauding? Who would say he’s defrauding? I agree he is widely overestimated but what do think these lies are about?
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